Using Data to Tell a Story: Part 2

Using Data to Tell a Story: Part 2

Dr. Guylaine Richard: Good morning, everyone, and good afternoon for some, good morning for some. So, welcome to "Using Data to Tell a Story." This is session 4b. We are so happy to be with you again and with no further ado, I would love to introduce my friend, Dr. Eurnestine Brown, but before doing so, let me just tell you. By now, you're probably familiar with Dr. Guylaine Richard. I am the Director of Training and Technical Assistance Development at the National Center. Dr. Brown?

Dr. Eurnestine Brown: Good morning or good afternoon, and welcome again to those who joined us for 4a. If you're new, welcome to 4b. We're going to be diving into data. As Dr. G said, my name is Eurnestine Brown, and I have the honor to be one of the Senior Training and Technical Assistant specialists at the National Center on Parent, Family, and Community Engagement. Take it away, Dr. G.

Dr. Richard: Thank you, Dr. Brown, and actually, I know our friends are very familiar with the console. So, I'm not going to take a lot of time going through that. As you could see, we have, like, you know, the "Engagement" hub. One of them is your media player. This is where you see Dr. Brown and I. And the second one – this is the one that we want you to pay a very good attention – is the Q&A. We would love for you to engage with us there. And in the middle of your console, you have the slideshow; this is where you really see the slides. But before I go any further, when I say slides, I know your mind is going to go to, "Will I get the PowerPoint?" Yes, guess what? We have downloaded everything for you in the "Resource" widget, and what you do there, we will have everything, including our "Reflect and Plan" form, that is important for you to pay attention to. And last but not least, we have – also in front of you – we have ... the presenter's bio can be found. So, if you want to know a little bit more about me and Dr. Brown, you can always go there. But we also would like to take the opportunity to bring your attention to, you know, one of the important widgets that we have is the "Knowledge Check," where you will have time to take some questions, and we will bring that back again and your certificate, and finally, not but not least, the "Help." Your "Help," widget where you can find any help that you need from our technology gurus. Thank you so much, Dr. Brown, and, guess, with that, I am gonna let you take us to some reflection, the person who adores data.

Dr. Brown: Yes. So, thank you, Dr. G. So, as we dive into data this morning or this afternoon, we hope that you might put in some in the answer widget. So, how do we move from a culture of compliance to a culture of continuous quality improvement? Because as you know, we are [Inaudible] longer and just [Inaudible]. "We did this, we did this, we did this ..." [Inaudible] Achieved outcomes ... And how can we have that continuous flow to enhance and improve quality in our program so that the outcomes for children and families and communities is enhanced? So, might have some thoughts on that. Dr. G, you might have some thoughts on that?

Dr. Richard: Yes, actually ... Dr. Brown, I like what you said, culture of compliance, which means that, you know, OK, we're going to – I'm going to get dang, and I'm going to get ring with you. But, you know, to culture of continuous quality improvement, I need to adjust what I'm doing, and I need to prove that I'm doing it right, and I'm satisfied what I need. So, that's what it means for me for a culture of continuous quality improvement. And my friends are giving it to ...

Dr. Brown: Awesome, awesome, awesome. Yes, of course. Well, how can you use data to tell the family's story, because that's going to give you a pathway to continuous quality improvement, by telling the family's authentic story. What are some of the learning objectives that we can talk to you about today? Well, one would be ... Well, since we're diving into data what are some strategies for understanding and applying the Four Data Activities? Some of you may be familiar with those data activities – prepare, collect, aggregate and analyze, use and share. So, "prepare" – that's part of your planning. What are your questions that you are asking? What are some of the challenges or strengths for your families? "Collect." We have a lot of data in Early Head Start and Head Start, but we want to be meaningful in collecting our data to answer the questions from our prepare stage. "Aggregate and analyze." So, what kind of analysis are you going to use? And here, we're going to talk to you about not just following your statistical [Inaudible] but really using it to answer the questions [Inaudible] And then, finally, "use and share." We also want to understand your – enhance your understanding of the program decision-making process. So, that's how you make a decision about what data to collect information back into your program, back into your community. And then, find the steps to apply and advance your program goals based on your program results and your community assessment. So, these are just the learning objectives that we hope to share with you today, and as you can imagine, everything that we do is always anchored in the PFCE framework. The anchor for progress and measuring [Inaudible], which is a pathway to change. So, use the framework because family engagement is truly everyone's business. From there, we hope that when you look at the framework, you can think about it as "If this, then that."

So, just a simple way to think about moving from compliance to culture of continuous improvement. So, we have quality systems, which would be under yellow arrow, program leadership, professional development, continuous learning, and quality improvement, which are our quality systems, plus effective services, so all of our program impact areas. Together, they will lead to achieved outcomes. So, no longer just compliance, but achieved outcomes for both families and children, and, of course, embedded with that would be for our communities as well. So, some of our key messages that we hope that you'll be able to take away from today's discussion is that how can we really make data an integral, an ongoing part of inquiry and program improvement? It really must be a part of your ongoing cycle of inquiry and program improvement [Inaudible]. It's also essential to look at trends and patterns. And so, when you look at quantitative and qualitative data, but you don't want to get stuck there. Surely, when something that you weren't expected is revealed, and that's OK. We're going to talk a little bit about that later. Dr. G is going to talk about what do we do when something unexpected is revealed. Finally, our key messages. How can you be a leader and managing and using data instead of following the data? We want to be in front of our data versus just following it. And I turn it back over to you, Dr. G.

Dr. Richard: Thank you, Dr. Brown, and thank you. And, you know, my friends, if you had, you know, found a little bit of technology, you know, when Dr. Brown was talking, we apologize because, you know, like, you know, we're in that virtual world, but guess what? What did we want? We wanted to be with you. So, important question that we're going to be answering right now. We know them. This is whenever we are talking about data, you have five important questions that should pop into your mind. What do we want? What did we want as a program? What do we want for the families? And once we can ... The next question is, how are we doing? That monitoring that is happening, that follow up. How are we doing? What are we ... You know, can we monitor? Do we have – do we have things that we can say, "Yes, we're fine"? But when you tell me "fine," what is it that you'll have to prove to me that you're fine? Without data, you won't be able to do that. How do we know this is the question that data will help you answer? How do we know? We know because we have data. We have data, which is information. We can show it to you, we can prove it to you, we can make sure that we are in line with what we wanted.

So, the fourth question that we're gonna ask – that usually is asked of us – have you made a difference? The question, you know, for us would be to answer – the answer would be "yes or no." We won't want you to say "yes or no." We would love for you to go ahead and say, "How do you know that you made a difference?" Again, this question, when you pose it to yourself, and you can answer the question, "How do we know?" You will be able, then, to document and to show the difference how you have made progress to what achieving those outcomes for families. So, important question, remember them. I know like, you know, most of you probably are very familiar, but what we want you to be thinking about them that way. What do we want? How are we doing? How do we know? Remember, "how do we know" is where we're going to anchor on data.

Now, I would love to take you to like, you know, with just a good ... You know, like, just a reminder of the Four Data Activity. The Four Data Activities are first, the "prepare." The prepare is what helps us answer the question, "What do you want?" What do you want? Have you planned for what you wanted? Do you know what do you want? So, this is the "prepare" of the planning phase. The second phase , like, you know, as we know, that we go usually to "collect," but remember, you know, when you collect you may be collecting information to prepare yourself. For example, when we do the community assessment, we need to prepare ourselves to know what we're going to plan. So, collecting is a good process. It's a second data activity, but at times, we collect too much. But remember, when you collect, you need to be in line with what do you want. Collect things that are going to help you go through what do you want. The third data activity that we want to talk about is "aggregate and analyze," and I am going to define it for you. Aggregate and analyze is the one that, you know, a lot of us are really worried about, but that's the one that you need to be understanding what you have collected to answer the question "What do I want? How am I doing?" Remember, aggregate and analyze help you make sense out of what you wanted to say that you wanted. So, aggregate put things, sort them, put them together, so it can be easier for you to analyze what you have. "Use and share," the fourth data activity, is simply the one that help us in the decision-making process. What are we – what are we going to do with the information that we have if the information is different? Are we going to – are we going to change it? Are we going to engage them in that continuous learning and improvement process that help you make the adjustment? So, really, what you had to use is "making decision," and the "sharing" is we need to be sharing the findings – our finding – with others, and it may be vary a different audience. So, you need to really be prepared to offer these findings to, you know, according to what audience is in front of you.

So, really, what I would love to do now is get us to that process of tracking over five-year period. I'm sure that all of you know now that we are in a five-year project period – project cycle. You know, the thing being, we start at the first, and, you know, we can decide our goal from the beginning, and we go to show that we have made a difference, or we need to make, you know, to make adjustment. So, what we want to do now ... I hope that you are following the coloring with us because the "prepare" is where you determine your goal, and you determine your objective. And your objective – I'm going to take quick minute on that – or simply the cutting of your goals in smaller pieces. And really, sometimes we say, "This is what my goal is." This is what my objective. This is how I'm going to get there." But those are also, "This is what I expect." But sometimes, we know, as we can see, when we get after analysis, you may not find – You may find that what you expected is different than what you got. But you know ... So, remember, "I know what I want. I collect ... " – which is the green button that you're seeing – "... what data will help me know that I'm getting there." And after that, as you can see, you get to the analysis, you get to compare is your expected outcome the same as your actual outcome. So, whenever you get there, you in the data, you in the third data activity which is aggregate and analyze. You analyze your progress; you see what progress have been made. Am I satisfied with those progress? And now, you can see then, literally, you would go to the use and share where you can share your findings, you can share that you know that probably you did not meet the mark. It's OK. If you didn't meet the mark, you need to know why. Again, that's data that is going to help you get to that process of knowing that you didn't make it. Dr. Brown, is there anything that you would be, you know ...

Dr. Brown: That sounds wonderful.

Dr. Richard: OK, OK. So, what I'm going to try to do then, Dr. Brown, is to really take our friends to one of the documents called the "Foundations for Excellence." I don't know how many of you are familiar with that, but it's time for you to go to the ECLKC to find it, or guess what? We have also put it in your "Resource" widget. The "Foundations for Excellence" was a joint work for all the National Center. We came together, and we wanted to ensure that program had what they needed as family service manager that you also had, you know, you had what you needed to support the family engagement. If you look at this document, this document has ... all of us have been able to put the example in it, but one of the things that I want really to bring your attention to is that, you know, that exploration. What did we do in the foundation for excellence? So, the foundation for excellence – we really try to work program and program manager, you know, as program managers you pay attention to those because, you know, there is ... And I'm going to define them like this, but you know, for simplicity. We got a big circle and a small circle. That circle that we have, the big circle, we start with, all our programs start with knowing "What do I want for my community assessment?"

I also can go to my self-assessment. I also go to the surveys that families have shared with us, questionnaire that we have put out. So, you stop to answer that question, "What do you want?" You have already collected some data, and you know where to go. But, you know, the next step you go ahead and start planning. This is the planning phase where we go and said, "OK, I know what I want. Now, I'm going to plan. I'm going to get steps to do that." And once you do that, you are actually implementing what you're doing because you know what you want, you know the plan, you have established your plan. Now, you're doing it. But in doing it, you need to ... You see what I'm going to enter now in that small circle. This is as you are doing it. You need to be paying attention to data. You need to pay attention to what information is being given to me, so I can know that I'm there. So, you see that circle, you enter it. So, this little circle that you see is something that I do continuously: Continued program improvement. Continuously. I do it every year. And, you know, when I want them back, when I'm coming back and looking at the end of the five years, what questions do you think are going to be posed to you? Have you made a difference? So, I need to compile all the things that have happened every year for me; I need to show that I have paid attention. And, you know, now I'm going to be able to say, "Yes, there is a difference, or there is something that I need to do differently," and I'm going to convey that. So, this is what the foundation. And I really, you know, encourage you to go because today, you know, we're not going to be able to go to all of it, but definitely the foundation for excellence is a jewel that you don't want to not have, you know, with you. So ...

Dr. Brown: And, Dr. G, if I could just agree with that.

Dr. Richard: Do you agree?

Dr. Brown: It's definitely a jewel. Yes [Laughs]. It is definitely a jewel of a tool to help programs move from compliance to a culture of continuous program improvement. Just like you said, it is wonderful. If you haven't downloaded it, please do.

Dr. Richard: Thank you, Dr. Brown. This is really a good tool. So, in this tool, actually, you would see – you would see, like, you know, some definition of key terms. For example, what are goals? What do we ... When we call goals, the goals that we establish, remember, the question, "What do you want?" The minute you answer that question, you're going to be able to establish your goal. "What do I want? What do I hope for? Why do I dream for as a program? This is my goal." So, the goals keep your eyes on the prize. The objective hit the nails on the head. I like that. Because objective now, oh, you know ... And we're going to introduce some term that, you know, going to take your breath away. I hope like, you know, you're going to see it in a different way because a lot of times, we haven't heard that the same way. We usually heard SMART goal, but now, we're not saying SMART goal. We are saying BROAD goal and SMART objective. Because your objective is going to really be the one that are going to help us hit the nail on the head because what the SMART means; SMART objective would mean then, specific, measurable, attainable, realistic, and timely. When I'm talking about BROAD goal, I'm talking about goals that are bold, responsive, organizational-wide, aspirational, and dynamic. So, that's what the word BROAD means now. So, as a program, I can start my first year of my five-year cycle by thinking big, and when I'm thinking big, people may say, "Oh, my God, how she's going to do that?" Or how, you know, this program is going to do that in five years?" I will be cutting this and showing you my objective that I have a plan, that I plan every single step, every single strategy to get there. So, outcome are actual results. Expected outcome are forecasted. Now, I want to take one quick minute to ... Yeah, you want to say something, Dr. Brown? Go ahead.

Dr. Brown: Oh, yes. Especially, in these uncertain times. So, as you just highlighted, in terms of program goals being BROAD, so, programs may need to be bold because we are in an uncertain time period, that we have a new normal. So, we will have to think outside of the box to be bold, to be responsive, organizational-wide, aspirational, dynamic. So, I just wanted to do your highlighting the program goals being BROAD statements.

Dr. Richard: Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Brown. And one of the things that I would love to do then now is showing you how, you know, programs put it together, and there is actually a chapter in that "Foundation for Excellence" where we all – national centers – have come together and put it together. It is so interesting. Programs, then, need to have the ability to develop and write those BROAD goals with measurable objective. They need to translate the goals and objectives into action, an action plan that will support progress towards expected outcome. And I want to say this, because this is something that some, at times, as family managers we may say, "What are you talking when you are talking about outcome?"

Remember, when we were doing the goal setting together, you know, in previous session, we were tying up everything to the family outcome, the seven-family outcome. Guess what? I'm going to give you a little secret. Everything that the program wants, everything that the program will do, the program will also be making progress toward those seven – those same seven outcomes. So, like, you know ... And one of the things that I wanted to really ... When we talk about putting it all together, Dr. Brown, is that once you align your goal with clearly defined SMART objective, you do that to identify specific and expected changes, because along the way, there will be challenges. Along the way, you will be able to tell us that, you know, "I see change that can happen," but also have challenges that may occur. So, project when those changes will occur; what will you do when those changes occur? And you would like to, then, allocate the necessary resources to ensure success. What are those resources? Those resources are not only financial resources. And for you, my friend, my family service managers, understand that when we're talking about resources, also, we need to be planning for not only the financial, but also the human service resources, that we're going to need to support those BROAD aspirational goals that we have for families.

So, with that, let me show you the one thing that's going to make your day. Look at this. Remember, Dr. Brown said "system, plus services equal outcome" – outcome for families, but also outcome for children. Guess what? In the program, you see the first two column, we have, you know, those elements, those things that program need to do. If this, then that. Program needs to do thing. And a lot of time, you're going to find the information that you need in the management system because, you know, this is where your system communication, planning, all those things exists. And you're going to be having to deliver those services in quality ways, but you will get those outcomes. And when you look at this outcome, we also not only have the seven outcomes that the program will support, will look at, but the program will also ... As we do family engagement – as we support family engagement, we're not only going to support the achievement, the growth of the families, but we will look at the growth of the children. And anybody, you know, if you're not familiar with the ELOF, which is the framework that support growth of children, you need to go ahead and see what we're saying is, "Yes, children grow because the five domains are also what we are attentive to when we look at the framework." Did I do a good job, Dr. Brown? Are you OK with me?

Dr. Brown: I am riding along with you as we are diving into data and enhancing our knowledge in the way that we are able to apply strategy. So, yes, I am with you. I am totally with you. So, let's put some of the strategies that Dr. G has just talked to us about, and let's look at a scenario, and let's see how we can think about, what we would do. So, what would you do to understand your data? So, getting it right, so digging in deeper into data. And we're going to focus mostly on the last two data activities, which are aggregate and analyze and use and share. And yes, Dr. G and I recognize and respect that you all can read, but we want to all be on the same page. So, if you will honor us, we'll just read the scenario so that we can all think about the scenario together.

So, last year, a hurricane brought many challenges to the families at AB123 Head Start. During a scheduled staff meeting, Ms. Dee, the family services manager, told them to be attentive to the issue of depression. She also brought her concern to the management team. So, now, we have the team involved. After consultation with the regional program specialist, the director and her team decided to provide mental health services to all families in need. Six months into the program year, Ms. Dee generated a report on mental health services with a focus on depression. She was looking for depression, indicators of depression. To her dismay, the report revealed program challenges were associated with opioid use. So, you may remember she was focusing on depression. The data results showed a significant difference between challenges associated with substance misuse compared to the use of the issue of depression. Ms. Dee was in a panic – Ms. Dee was now in a panic. Program AB123 was not meeting the goal. They have decided as a team to focus on depression. Their data revealed that it's not depression that families are struggling with but actually opioid abuse or substance misuse. Ms. Dee felt that she had made the wrong decision and would not be able to show the impact of their focus on mental health and depression or their focus on their intervention. What would you do?

So, maybe you could put some of your thoughts down in the "Question and Answer" widget 'cause we want to get it right. We know that everyone wants to get it right as we're digging into the data. And Dr. G had mentioned that sometimes the data will give you a surprise, something that you're not expecting, and that – we hope that you get from this training today – is A-OK. When your data reveals something that is not expected, as long as you can describe and understand it, based on what it's telling you, you'll be fine 'cause it's not about the checks anymore, it's about telling your family story. Dr. G, do you want to add anything to our scenario, or do we just move on?

Dr. Richard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I've got something because, you know, what you just said – I would cry. My parents ...

Dr. Brown: But it can be happy tears – happy tears. Remember, data are a gift. So, what is it telling us? Something different, and that's OK. It is really OK, because you ask the question, and you have the answer. So, what are you going to do with that answer? That's your next step. So, what would your plan of action be? Some reflection questions. So, if you were the family service manager, what would you do, what was your plan of action be? So, after you picked yourself up, and you're no longer crying, what are you going to do? How would you share your findings? Who would you share your findings with? And then, how would you explain the disconnect?

Dr. Richard: Let me tell you what I'm doing. I'm looking at what my friends are writing, and I'm going to tell you. Some people have said they will cry with me, but they will go ahead and find all those documents, all those data that we want to make sure that we say that we were following the thing that we wanted. We wanted to find a question, but we found [Inaudible], but we will have the documentation. Does that help you? Because myself, I'm feeling like crying, but my friends are putting some wonderful things now in the Q&A widget, and thank you, guys, for helping me because all I know, you see how she's happy. And me, I'm crying because I don't know what to do. All right, Dr. Brown.

Dr. Brown: Right. Yes. But also, again, paying attention to what else is happening in your community. Because there can be lots of changes, even within a six-month period, that happen within your community. It could also be that the questions that you ask, guess what? You did an excellent job, and they allowed you to dig even deeper, because you can look at substance misuse and depression together. So, you have a rich data source. So, there are many ways that you can go and explain that disconnect. Because, again, it is not about checking the boxes, but it's about telling the story of your families. And I turn back over to you, Dr. G.

Dr. Richard: I'm happy now. So, I could say, "Yeah, my ... You know, I didn't see depression, but I saw like, you know, substance use." But what I did then, I can connect the story and say, "This is what I was going for, but ..." So, I'm not scared of reporting what I found.

Dr. Brown: No. No, not at all. Not at all. Because that's your – that's the story of our families, and we want our data. Remember, we talked about the why. Why did this happen, and how? The what and the why. So, we can connect it back to ... This is a story of our families, and this is what we're telling. It's authentic, it's meaningful. We ask the questions, and this is what our data revealed.

Dr. Richard: I love this. I love this. So, you know, Dr. Brown, thank you for gifting us with this. You know, I'm sure that you know, we will... You know, our friends here will bring it back and unpack more. And as we are like, you know, moving towards this, we definitely will have time to unpack, and if we have questions, we will have time to [Inaudible]. Please continue asking us, putting your comment in the Q&A widget. We love to be engaging with you in that way. But Dr. Brown, is that OK with you? I'm going to go ahead and go to some, like ports that, you know, researchers like that you have probably put. And, you know, so at this. Leaders' thought about data. Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. When I see the signature of Albert Einstein there, I'm saying yes, because sometimes we cannot count. Remember, quantitative – sometimes you cannot ... Quantitative data, you're going to do the hash mark but, you know, the qualitative data, you may not be able to count them, but the stories are so important, the information are important. And another one that I would love to share like, you know, I saw that was really – really taken to me is one of the common fallacies is that data is opposed to intuition, and that's Hilary Mason that said that. But instead, data is a tool for enhancing intuition. A lot of times, we look at intuition as something that, you know, really just give you the ... You know, you're thinking that going to happen, and you don't, you're not sure, you're not this, but you're going anyway with your first gut check, and you're saying, "OK, it's going to be good." But, you know, now if it's going to be good, then, Dr. Brown, what I have to do is showing that – that the data that I have is telling – is supporting my intuition that I know something was going to happen, what I expected to what is actually happened. Even if they have a disconnect, I can find ways to use data to support my first intuition, the thing that I thought I was going to find. I love that. I love this quote, and I have more for you. Guess what?

Dr. Brown: It's just awesome, and you can see intuition as the starting point, but at least you have a starting point.

Dr. Richard: I love that. I love that. Thank you for giving us this starting point. Yes, and you know, another like, you know, without data ... I love that one too, Dr. Brown, but I'm not too sure. Without data, you're just another person with an opinion.

Dr. Brown: Yes, show me the numbers, show me the information. I need support for what you're saying.

Dr. Richard: You want me to show you? Yes, we got documentations that the data is helping us. Without data, it didn't happen. And then the last one: strategy is multi-dimensional, planning is multi-dimensional, planning, multi-team collaboration, and multi-tasking action. I like that. I don't want to do data by myself because I'm going to be depressed. You see, for your data, I'm going to be depressed. So, I don't want to do it by myself. So, therefore, we're going to have more people coming with what they know. Because sometimes, information is not with you, the information is with the teacher, for example, our family. And you need to find out. So, if we start sharing it ... If we start working as a team, as we saw in this management team meeting, we know how to support each other. All right.

Dr. Brown: Yes, data can be delightful. Data can be delightful. We have everybody at the table: The bus driver, the nutrition person – everyone at the table.

Dr. Richard: Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Brown. So, actually, as we wrap-up, Dr. Brown, we should say, "Data is not just adding things to your plate, data is about making sure you have the right thing on your plate." I love that.

Dr. Brown: Yes, that is awesome. Yes. And then, last one ...

Dr. Richard: You want to say the last one, Dr. Brown. Go ahead.

Dr. Brown: OK. We can do it together, my friend. So, anticipate the difficult by measuring the easy. There are some things that you can do straight away, but there are other things where you're going to have to dive in much deeper. That is wonderful as well because you want to get those rich, meaningful stories about your family.

Dr. Richard: Yes, and we've ... Now, Dr. Brown, I would love to give a little on the resources that we're going to be, you know, we have the resources, and those resources are available on the ECLKC, but you can download them also from our "Resource" widget, and the "Foundation for Excellence" is there for you and remember your "Reflect and Plan" handout. With that, Dr. Brown, guess what? We already at time – One minute or two minutes to complete their "Knowledge Check" and certificate completion. Remember, your "Knowledge Check" widget, you go there, you take the – you take those tests, and you answer those questions, and you're going to be filling the requirement to have your certificate. Once you get to the certificate, you're going to get the pop-up window, you're going to click on it, and you're going to download it on your computer so you can have it for further use, or you may also print it. So, therefore, with that, we're going to give you the last few minutes – proper minutes, one-minute left. But before we do that, we would love to leave you with something to continue reflecting with us as you take your test, if you finish before. So, with that, those are some reflecting questions that we have for you as managers. How does the information obtained from families influence your program planning? As a manager, what would you do when the expected outcome differs from the actual outcome? As they are taking that, Dr. Brown, we're going to give them that minute, and we're going to go ahead and tell them goodbye.

Dr. Brown: I'll do, and thank you. Thank you for diving into data 'cause, you know, it's so rich and meaningful. Thank you for spending time with us.

Dr. Richard: Data is delightful.

Dr. Brown: Yes

Dr. Richard: That's what she said. Data is not depressing. Data is the documentation you need to show that you made a difference. Data is what again, Dr. Brown? Wonderful.

Dr. Brown: It's a gift that our families share with us. We want to honor and support that gift.

Dr. Richard: Thank you so much. Thank you.

Dr. Brown: Thank you, my friend. I love talking about data.

Dr. Richard: I know. Look at you beaming. It's like ice cream to you.

Dr. Brown: Yes, it is.

Dr. Richard: And, you know, it's like medicine to me. Thank you so much.

Dr. Brown: All right, thank you.

Dr. Richard: Thank you. See you soon again. See you at the next, you know ... Don't forget we have another session, the session 5a and session 5b, just go to your "Engagement" hub, and please select the one that you're going to come to. We'll be waiting for you there. Thank you, guys, and have a great one. Thank you.

Dr. Brown: Thank you.